SCHIP Pros and Cons From Texans and My Opinion
- This country owes more than $9 trillion. In one generation we have gone from the largest creditor nation to the largest debtor nation. …
- I am very sympathetic to children who do not have health insurance coverage. But I don’t believe nationalization is the answer.
- Our government has proved that it doesn’t know how to run things. If it did, this nation wouldn’t be going into debt at the rate it is. There has to be a better way.
- No matter what we call the new system — universal, single-payer or socialized medicine — our present system needs reconstructive surgery, not a Band Aid or some special-interest spin.
- For all his lip service regarding “family values,” President Bush has vowed to veto health care for millions of uninsured children. If he does, millions of low-income children will lose the opportunity to get health insurance through SCHIP .
- But freedom means very little if lawmakers at every level pass laws and levy taxes that give us little choice but to live their version of our lives. Government spends fast and loose and when things get tight, it hits up smokers first. A government for the people? Smokers say, “With friends like this, who needs enemies?”
- Robert D. Novak’s Sept. 28 Outlook column, “Socialized medicine is coming through the front door,” expressed concern that the SCHIP bill threatens “to crowd out the private health industry.” What? This is the very same, highly profitable industry that crowds millions of uninsured Americans out of health care coverage. Children should be the No. 1 concern.
Texans seem to be undecided about SCHIP. Usually the insured are clueless about the plight of uninsured citizens. No one seems concerned about Epidemiology and the spread of disease …
BossKitty has an opinion on this whole argument. Public health and preventive medicine are the whole point! Since the current health care system is so inadequate and elitist, millions of people cannot seek the treatment or medication they need. This means, if you are not insured, the medical arena is so limited and complicated, that you are forced to live with your illness or injury. This means, you pass more people on the street that are coughing, wheezing and may have a contagious condition that is free to roam through the population. Going untreated is a National Security issue. Forget the personal angst of the victims. Their pain is of no concern to anyone, except the next person who inherits their symptoms. What a dilemma! The current system is NOT available for repair, as long as the bottom line is threatened for the mega insurance companies and mega pharmaceutical empires. Mo’ money - that’s why the remaining insured pay higher premiums. Illness caught from the uninsured guarantee continued necessity of drugs and treatment for the remaining insured. Catch 22 or conspiracy? Insurance companies and pharmaceutical companies DON’T want SCHIP or any guaranteed medical coverage. That threatens their ‘BOTTOM’ line. They try to scare everyone with threats of “watered down” health care. They call it “Socialized Medicine”. Accountability does not exist. I call that “Anti-Social” and dangerous.
September 29th, 2007 at 12:22 pm
They are trotting out the tried and true lies and arguments of the 50’s and 70s oh the horror - socialized medicine. People see SiCKO as soon as you can. We the people are nothing more than profit centers. Any Health plan that is Universial must have the middle man taken out..financial services what our economy is now (note its no longer a service economy) is destroying us. It is subtracting from the society for the benefit of the money changers..financial manegers , bankers, insurance companies..The only way they profit is to subject from services…
There is no reason on this green earth why government could not run a single payer, efficient health care program for ALL. It is a sign of extremem greed and loss of any moral compass that we do not have this.
Government can be run well, it depends who is running it. Any health care programs that involves access to “policies” misses the mark. Its too complicated and does not take into account that no matter how fair and easy it appears ITS NOT.
Other countries have proven that people , given unlimited sick days, and no stress when they are ill or have an emergency are very productive. WE here believe the BS that welfare is bad..and people will take something for nothing..Human nature is not like that..we are born originally good, we like to be productive - All that is preventing us for a Single Payer Plan is pure greed and the cycle of investments in health care corporations who really have NO regulations about their funduciary responsiblilities.
September 29th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
Keep it simple Proud. None of us know all the convolutions it takes to make our sick society work. There are layers and layers of symbiotic business organisms showing the poor results we experience today. That’s the root of our problem. The inmates (businesses) are running the asylum (health care). They make it complicated so politicians are reluctant to tackle the problem. That leaves sick people without a simple answer. It takes a united front that isn’t looking at the problem through ‘rose colored’ glasses. Is there anyone left with 2020 vision?
September 29th, 2007 at 12:41 pm
Do not confuse universial health care , with A single payer player plan. If the managed care middle people stay in place, the profit driven system will stay in place.
Kucinich is the ONLY candidate that gets this..He is the only one who could lead us where we need to go. And BK you are so right..about the public health issues. Who benefits when sick people cannot access medical treatment ? The funeral home industries..the hospitals when those “insured become ill ?
Our nation is crude , greedy and hateful - Nixon knew full well what Henry Kaiser of Kaiser Permanente was up to…providing “less care” its all on tape. I worked in Managed care for a BIG company..I have been in the belly of the beast was a reviewer..IT is pure EVIL and i have much to say about this as retired social worker. I also have a few posts in my archives about SiCKO and Medicare. Health care in general.
Anyone who Missed Moyers journal last night see the Pod cast ! see John Bogles interview. We are driving ourselves over a cliff if capitalism continues to run amok and stray from its possibilites for good..NOT everything should be privitized…its that simple..it does not take a rocket scientist..we have become disgustingly perverted allowing unfettered Oligarchical greed.
steps off of soap box..and lights a cigarette so the leetle children can have health care..
Also for those who do not get “NOW” on fridays nights…see it on Sunday on PBS it is all about Military PTSD. A subject near and dear to BB hearts..That too is about health care.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:35 am
You are leaving out the most important facts about this bill. Besides the disgusting European socialized medicine aspects to this:
** The bill requires the American taxpayer to buy health insurance for citizens of foreign countries in the United States illegally. Imagine the line at the border now.
** The bill allows children, up to the age of 25 to be covered. 25?? Who in their right mind would dream this nonsense up?
** Under this bill states determine the poverty level for qualification. One state is choosing up to $83,000 and others are well over $50,000. You really think poor people smoking cigarettes should buy insurance for people making up to $83,000?
This bill is only designed as a campaign issue for Democrats. They want to say they are doing for the children knowing no one with any sense would not vote these boondoggle wastes of money.
Hopefully, George Bush will save us from this catastrophe.
September 30th, 2007 at 9:43 am
Mr Rick, the shallow view that the term “socialized medicine” and “taxpayers paying health care for illegals” is missing the whole point. Those are terms used to influence people who don’t want to research the BIG picture. The BIG picture is the “baby” is the uninsured American public, the “bathwater” is an illegal alien. The rest of the BIG picture is the unhealthy have more influence than you imagine. The unhealthy are like rotten apples in a basket of healthy apples. It does not take long for the whole basket to go bad. The entire nation is at risk of being victimized by physical and mental health neglect. The principle that needs to be addressed is health care costs, no matter how you cut it. By focusing on the shallow picture, nothing gets done and status quo has failed.
September 30th, 2007 at 12:02 pm
you know what i am a humanist. I am person who believes that a nation is judged by the quality of life of its residents. I believe that since the technologies now exist that it is a birthright that all humans recieve health care when they need it. I don’t care if that person is a fundimentalist, a republican , a democrat or whatever..they are a human being. Our fragmented health care system and this bill as well only reinforces the insurance companies stay in place for their own benefit..not ours. We need a single payer health care plan. the illegal alien issue is red herring - we all bleed red blood. Public health should be a paramount concern..with global warming upon us..new viruses emerge daily and creep around the globe.
Health care should not be in the realm of profiteers its truly immoral..and those who suffer the most..are safely keep out of our vision..Means tests are cruel and arbitrary and going state by state is not a fair answer.
One would think this issue could transcend partisian differences. As michael moore asks in his movie SiCKO - “who are we ?” WE the people need to ask ourselves that question. YOYO economics in the end and right now hurts us all even the most ardent and successful capitalists.
America has become so greedy and black hearted and fearful - its tragic. We need a really new model. Kucinich has one that would benefit all of us , no matter how differently we believe or are politically. Its heart based, earth based and sustainable. Do we as a country want to continue heading towards the cliff of all over reaching Empires of the past, thats where we are heading..my friends.
September 30th, 2007 at 12:11 pm
Rich sir, see SiCKO and just watch it…there is nothing disgusting about the European system. They put us to shame. Its so humane, the people are so relieved from certain stresses and guess what..they are super happy and productive. I want that for republicans as well as those i may agree with more. I want to be proud of my country again. Happy to live here. I want us to be truly great , not psuedo great. Sir our financial economy due to all the fragmentation and profiteering is in grave danger. The fiscal responsibility of true conservatives has flown out the window. How can you deny this and the fact that the Republicans have betrayed some of the most fundamental conservative tenents to all our detriment ? Its under bush our debt has climbed more then under all presidents before him put together..how can you feel good about that ? And what do the tax payers get for this spending ? ……more prisons ? Where is compassion..and believe me i am equally dissapointed in the dems. Neither party reflects my values at the moment. Its one business party. Very very sad.
September 30th, 2007 at 1:30 pm
bosskitty, I really don’t think I am the one missing the “big picture”.
First of all, this program was created in 1997 and was a health insurance for the poor program. I think you folks are missing the point to think that it has to have these additional (illegals, adults, children of fairly wealthy people) features to succeed. It certainly does not and I am really not interested in subsidizing them for the benefit of Democratic party and their quest for power in the next election.
Secondly, I agree that health care costs are a severe problem. Please explain to me how this bill lowers health care costs. And, please site numerous examples of government subsidies, actually, lowering the cost of anything.
proudprogressive…Your ideas are wonderful. I assume you are a doctor from a top medical school that refuses to accept pay for what you do.
Michael Moore himself certainly doesn’t seem to be a person annoyed with income.
September 30th, 2007 at 2:34 pm
i am a retired social worker, Rick. i have worked in many sectors both medical and psychiatric , public and private. The doctors in the Documentary are more free and able to practice their healing profession, they are very decently compensated and feel very good about what they do, How many of our doctors can say that here ?…nowadays when the insurance middle men , miles away check their every move and frequently stop them outright from delivering needed care. ..Rick my friend ..see the film. and i actually agree with you, actually about the problems with the bill but for different reasons..some of the same ones..but mostly , it perpetuates exactly the fragmentation and current system..WE really need an extreme makeover, based on universial Humanitarian Single payer concepts so much money is spent on adminstrative costs for the Managed care system..the dollar is not a dollar by the time it gets to the patient.
If i were a doctor, i would likely be working with the poorest of the poor, that is just my nature. I would go where i was needed the most. And money, all i want is enough to get by on. I live simply so that others may simply live.
A single payer, well governed plan would not hurt anyone but the most greedy who through the convuluted system we have now are rarely held accountable. It would also address the extra burden our doctors have with their high …wait for it…INSURANCE premiums.
see the film, Michael Moore is an incrediably generous man..( i have a friend in the film actually and know for a fact Mr Moore the depth of Moore’s genorosity) That is just an aside..But its the facts.
Now the question arises..is it not OK for a truly patriotic/artist like himself not to make money ? Moore loves america and its people. He really does. He also has courage, humor and heart. Lets not have a double standard for this film maker due to ideological differences and perhaps mis understandings and blind hatred. Lets not shoot the messenger …
September 30th, 2007 at 3:15 pm
proudprogressive, Sorry, I feel like we are talking two different concepts. You are discussing the broader topic and necessity of affordable health care and I am talking about the current SCHIP legislation.
Honestly I don’t think the two are related. That’s my point.
This bill can be renewed “as was” and I think that is progress. The purpose of the nonsensical expansion in this bill is to try and draw a veto from the President for Democrats to use as a campaign tool. Plain and simple they wrote a bill they want the president to veto.
The Democrats really don’t lay awake at night and reason that debt on future generations of America is justified by purchasing health insurance cards for children in our country illegally. The problem with health insurance is not encountered by the people making $83,000 a year.
This bill does not advance your cause one step. As a matter of fact, the deeper this government goes into debt for boondoggles like this, the less likely that what you want to happen will happen. Somebody in Washington needs to start thinking about spending money efficiently. This bill does not spend money efficiently.
In all of the writing above no one has addressed the expansion of this program. It can’t be defended. And the idea that we are going to raise taxes on mostly the poor to accomplish that is outrageous.
heres an idea though. Why not just put enormous new taxes on people that make documentary films? Just out of curiosity, did Michael Moore suggest that in his movie?
September 30th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
“This bill does not advance your cause one step. As a matter of fact, the deeper this government goes into debt for boondoggles like this, the less likely that what you want to happen will happen. Somebody in Washington needs to start thinking about spending money efficiently. This bill does not spend money efficiently”.
we agree. there but i guess thats about it. good dialoging with you. The snipes at Moore are unnecessary but its what one can expect sadly from bush lovers..why is it you folks just cannot seem to go deeper in your thought processes ? see the film..see what moore does..then ask that question again. And do not kid yourself either..a two income household making the amount of 83 grand can and often do have the most heinous problems with health insurance companies..in fact that is what moore’s film truly addresses. How those who think they are covered are regularly shafted and that my friend could well include you..i wish you only the best of health of course.
September 30th, 2007 at 3:48 pm
Rick:
I sat and watched the entire Senate floor speech on the SCHIPS expansion progam, several republican senators, one in particular, Bob Corker, R-Tenn made it very clear that this was not for illegal aliens but for immigrant children born in the U.S., big difference. Corker also made it clear that several states have already requested 300% over the poverty level and Bush has granted them through executive orders as recent as February 2007.
Regarding “fairly wealthy people” if you consider 85,000.00 as fairly wealth I want to live in your State. In Austin Texas, a family of four with 2 jobs, who own their home, just gets by on that amount. No Joke.
If you listen to Sen.John Cornyn from Texas who stated the same things you are, then you are listening to a well documented White House water boy. Cornyn’s behavior and allegiances is why he has lost his support in Texas and will be out in the next election.
Reading the bill in detail and listening to the senate floor speeches you will see why many republicans believe in the expansion. This is why their vote will override a White House veto.
September 30th, 2007 at 4:05 pm
Dear Rick, the whining over SCHIPS is nothing more than distraction from the billions of wasted dollars given to corrupt war contractors. Even if SCHIP is less than perfect, it is a step toward better coverage for the uninsured. Hell, we can’t even do justice to our returning wounded. We are also deporting spouses of KIA soldiers who died for the right to become American. With $750 million a day spent for Iraq, there must be some left over for health care improvement at home (and bridge repair). Our infrastructure is crumbling. That includes Heath Care and Utilities.
October 1st, 2007 at 12:07 am
If you care - Canadian medicine is just single-payer. End of story. Private business does exist ; it’s just that insurance is supplemental to basic guaranteed minimums.Ask a doctor about current U.S. billing practices : the paperwork to get paid by ‘insurers’is insane ! And they all want to skip out on the bill or the patient that requires treatment ASAP.
October 1st, 2007 at 10:08 am
Opit:
I sometimes wonder if the ignorance of Americans on this subject outweighs the corporate greed.
October 1st, 2007 at 11:34 pm
I’ve written on one post about a fellow who was my best friend for many years - an ex photo-journalist and world traveller, a real ‘Renaissance Man’. Kibitzing with a handsome polymath on a regular basis can be rather hard on the ego : but is worth it for the insights. It’s especially satisfying when you can rock a person like that once in a while.
One thing that came up as a difference between Canadians and Americans ( we have a hell of a thing about figuring out a national identity ) was that you were much more activists while we were simply naive and trusting.
Be that as it may, whether through the influence of the school system or just cultural differences ( or Viewpoint ), we tend to think of ourselves much more as ‘citizens of the world’ than I catch on vibes from your way.Not to say we don’t have ‘rednecks’ - there’s a shitload. But there seems more of a dismissive attitude to the concerns of others. As a sales-oriented person, I can think of few more off-putting habits.
This is, of course, agonized over as an unwillingness to cooperate on community projects many times : the prejudice against non-business alliances seems over-the-top. So much for progressive social programs. It must be discouraging as all-get-out : not that such are an easy sell here, but everything is relative.
October 2nd, 2007 at 10:22 am
Opit you hit it on the head…american’s ignorance and brainwashedness outweights the corporate greed..PLus the corporate greed is tied into our system so that many hold stocks in the greedy corporations that in turn give them and society less care.
Since the 40’s or longer…but especially in the 50’s the corporate elite through advertising and the politicans of both BOTH parties want us divided..they come up with myths about the poor..about UNIONs, ..about welfere and about AMERICA - we get lied to daily and most americans are working so hard and long …that they watch 30 mins of infotainment news..and get no facts.
We had Reagan in the 80’s bad bad BAD man..just as bad as NIXON…and I will not leave out Clinton either…they all fed us lies..said one thing..and the programs and bills passed THE EFFECT of the policies did another.
In America there is this crazy notion too, of blaming the victim…oh they must have not worked hard enough or done something stupid, or asked for too much..meanwhile our culture is becoming really course,really dumbed down and people are struggling mightily and invisiably..1984 the Orwell book sums us up so perfectly…today its spooky.
October 13th, 2007 at 4:27 pm
[...] bosskitty wrote an interesting post today on SCHIP Pros and Cons From Texans and My OpinionHere’s a quick excerptInsurance companies and pharmaceutical companies DON’T want SCHIP or any guaranteed medical coverage. That threatens their ‘BOTTOM’ line. They try to scare everyone with threats of “watered down” health care. They call it “Socialized … [...]
October 14th, 2007 at 2:09 pm
[...] bosskitty wrote an interesting post today on SCHIP Pros and Cons From Texans and My OpinionHere’s a quick excerptInsurance companies and pharmaceutical companies DON’T want SCHIP or any guaranteed medical coverage. That threatens their ‘BOTTOM’ line. They try to scare everyone with threats of “watered down” health care. They call it “Socialized … [...]
October 25th, 2007 at 9:46 am
Get the facts
I hope no one has read what Rick G had said and took that to be absolute truth.
25 year old adults get covereage: FalseThis bill only covers children aged 18 or younger. This bill actually fixes the problem created by this administration, which granted waivers to states to cover adults under this program meant for low-income children.
Coverage at $80,000: False This bill does not grant SCHIP coverage to children whose families have incomes over $40,000. In fact, the only way a state can cover children in families at higher income levels is if the administration grants approval for the state to do so. This new bill actually toughens the standards for exemption.
As for covering illegal immigrants, I don’t know where in the bill you got that idea from. If you had something to back that up, I’m sure I could debunk that for you too.